Dealerships and Credit Cards

[Palssonater]

Big discussion going on here in the shop about buying a quad or snowmobile on a credit card. A lot of the guys up here run just about everything through some sort of credit card just because the amount of distance between us and most vendors.

I was saying the next quad I buy will be on my new Aeroplan Visa, so I could get the points, and then I would just transfer it over to my line of credit(the rate is better then most financing options from a recreational dealer). One guy in the shop said he had tried that and been denied, and that the dealership reserves the right to set a maximum purchase amount.

Called CIBC and they said, "Dealer will do that" meaning that they will set maximum purchases allowed on credit card. Looked up VISA's vendor agreement and it said that this was not allowed, meaning as soon as they put that sticker in their window they must accept a credit card as payment.

Anyone ever ran across this before? Anyone fought for it? Any input from dealer representatives?

Just food for thought, I don't wan't to start a pissin match.

[Tooler]

I tried to buy my 2005 HO on my AMEX card just to get the points. I was told by the dealer they would do this but would add 3% to the price of the bike to cover the cost of the AMEX transaction. I think they legally cannot do this but I didn't push the issue.

[Maxter]

Most dealers don't want to accept credit cards for such large purchases because the credit card companies charge them a % of each sale for handling the transaction. Commonly 3%. So on a $12,000 purchase the vendor would have to pay $360 commission and they don't want to do that. IS it legal? I don't know, but most dealers do it.

[Palssonater]

350 bucks to get 12,000+taxes+350bucks = 1 free flight per Aeroplan!

Gillam to Winnipeg approx 1100 bucks Calm Air. Probably worth it....

[Moemar]

I've heard the same as Maxter. A coworker bought a sled with plastic and they split the difference. He got his points, dealer got the sale.

[JB]

It depends on the dealer, as well as how much money he/she is making off of you. If the dealer is making a large profit, they'll do cr.card with no questions. If it is a tight profit margin, then they won't want to fork out the cash for the fees that come with swiping a card.

[The Chef]

Most have a maximun of $2500 . Did it for a truck a few years ago. Most have a sign that says $500 max deposit on credit cards. Your idea has been thought of before

[Palssonater]

Funny how they are allowed to get away with it as per the bank, even though VISA says they can't.

[gap]

bought my boat with visa at a yamaha dealer that used to be on regent ave.got an extra years warrent from visa,the salesman thought it was a joke when i handed him my visa,i assuerd him i was serious,he ran it through and i was on my way with my brand new boat and exrta warrenty,so the boss found out about this large visa transaction and was not at all impressed.now the following fall after said company moved to dugald road i went to buy a yamaha snowblower on my visa and was denied outrite and rudly told that credit cards were not foe major purchasses!!!

[Palssonater]

I can't help but feel like everytime I make a major purchase, I am being taken advantage of as a customer. Dealerships are easy to say they'll take off money here, but quick to put it on the other end. Just recently a friend, new to quadding, got 400 dollar tire credit for stock rims and rubber, but it was on the other end and was no further ahead. But he was happy with that.

They see people coming a mile away. For every 10 people who know what something is really worth, there are 9 that just sign away.

Its like the best buy extended warranty. 9 out of 10 people buy it. 1 person brings one tv back 2 years later, they still have 8 people who they made money off of.

I am sick and tired of this whole sell and buy thing. Selling you mark up, buying you haggle down. Everywhere I dealt, I go away knowing that I spent to much, but too pissed off to care.

The only place I have found complete set in stone sales with no BullSh!# is Vinnie. I think that's why I like buying there. I wish he sold quads.

Other than that, I've yet to walk away from a dealership happy.

Sorry for the vent....

[GrizzleyPeg]

I understand its about money, but still have to wonder at the ethics of it. So they sell 20 accessories that week and each purchase is by credit card. It adds up to the same price as an ATV. They don't deny you buying that $300 helmet with your visa or mastercard. Cash discounts or surcharges for credit card usage are not allowed under the credit card agreement either is my understanding. Perhaps visa or mastercard really don't want to alienate dealors and enforce their agreement. I wonder if it says anything in the customer agreement when you sign up for the card that anyone offering visa or mastercard must accept a valid transaction? The reason I ask is because its pretty hard to enforce an agreement you are not a party to.

[ssphunter]

I used my card to buy my tracks to get the points. They didn't like and admited it was because of the costs to them. Told them (politely)I didn't have the cash so it was card or no sale it was their call. They put it through and said they wouldn't do it again.
Mike

[FrogX]

I'm sure they would do it again if it came down to a sale or not, I'm sure they are making more the 3% on the sale to begin with.

[hannibal]

The bottom line boys is the Bottom Line in parts sales theres between 25% to 50% margins .On a quad or a sled or most big ticket items there is between 2% to 5% margin would you want to lose all your profit to fees in a credit card transaction.I bet if you pay The MSRP you can buy it on credit card????? It just math?

I call bullshit. There is no way someone like Winnipeg Yamaha could survive on 2-5% margin, there just isn't enough volume of sales. If there is only 2-5% margin, there better be some awesome dealer incentives to go along with it!!!! And it's a well known fact that they mark up their parts at minimum 100%, so there's no damn way they'd only put 2-5 points on a quad.

Not only does it piss me off to hear that dealerships won't take your credit card, it also pisses me off when I see a retailer charging to use the interac machine. It's called the cost of doing business. What ever happened to servicing the customer?? Not only is service the shits these days, they charge you for anything they can!!!! If they don't like the costs of accepting credit cards or interac, ***** at the banks and the credit card companies, not the consumer!!!!

[Super Dave!]

it also pisses me off when I see a retailer charging to use the interac machine. It's called the cost of doing business. What ever happened to servicing the customer?? Not only is service the shits these days, they charge you for anything they can!!!! If they don't like the costs of accepting credit cards or interac, ***** at the banks and the credit card companies, not the consumer!!!!

HERE HERE !!! WELL SAID!!

[Palssonater]

I imagine that a recreational dealer such as Polaris or BRP has a higher markup than Ford or GMC.

That being said, I think Hannibal nailed the way most of us consumers feel. Fight tooth and nail, because we know what we should be paying, but have to scratch to get down to the amount, only to be told about "documentation fees"(this one gets me goin!) and other extra incurred expenses.

And then when you try paying for it, they look at you funny because you are holding a piece of plastic. 3 major purchases in the last three years and three times I've gone away saying never going to go back to that dealership.

The scary thing is, most dealerships are the same. They all have to play the same game. Not saying that a person who runs/owns a dealership doesn't deserve the right to make money, however, its unfortunate the way the game has been layed out for them. They are forced to play it, and the consumer feels left behind.

[ShoCKer]

When I bought my last vechile and quad I was able to put a couple of grand on the card. But I will through a wrench in the conversation guys. What about those stupid GM and Ford credit cards. Do you really think you get that money off of your new vechile? They know right away when you walk in the door that you have it and won't budge on the price. I have a card from citi bank that I get 2 percent back on all purchases and can cash in when I license a new vechile. This can be anything you can put a plate on. I can buy a used trailer from Joe Blow slap a plate on it then go and cash in my money. I would recommend all you guys take a look at it.

[barkerlakebob]

1st of guys as of May 1st of this year it is illegal to charge fee's on a retail purchase.And if you didnt want to know about profit margins why do you ask .And i callBS on selling anything with a 100% margin good for you if you can sell it but the market is far to tight to charge that margin and get away with it. The old rule still holds true cash is KING.If you gots the cash there is no problem if you dont then you have to pay to borrow it or transfer it , it is the cost if you dont have the cash?Dont take it personal every business World Wide works on profit margins.Ask your self do you go to work to lose money or to make money. Did want to p i s s anyone else just thought some helpfull knowledge would be appreciated ,I gues I was wrong again,But those maargins are industrie averages.3-5 % on large purchases,small purchases 25-40% on all others!

Well said. When a person makes a deal on a vehicle/s or anything, cash will usually get the buyer some attention !!

[Palssonater]

Gibbies, no harmful intent towards you. I have never purchased a vehicle from you yet(although I saw an expedition ELorXL or whatever it is last time I was down...nice!). I commend you for posting in this thread and bringing us the other side of things. I realize its all numbers and it the nature of the game for consumer dealer.

I am just tired of playing it. :cheers:

[hannibal]

And i callBS on selling anything with a 100% margin good for you if you can sell it but the market is far to tight to charge that margin and get away with it. The old rule still holds true cash is KING.If you gots the cash there is no problem if you dont then you have to pay to borrow it or transfer it , it is the cost if you dont have the cash? But those maargins are industrie averages.3-5 % on large purchases,small purchases 25-40% on all others!

So you're telling me that all of these fancy dealerships are surviving on 3-5% profit margin? Doubtful..... And as an every day Joe Blow, I can walk into a Ford dealership and pay at least a 100% markup on parts. How else do you explain me being able to buy the parts at an online dealer for less than half of the price here??

And as far as cash being king, I don't see that too much anymore. Whenever I've shopped for a vehicle and when asked told them I'd pay in cash, didn't seem to make much of a difference on price. Why would they prefer cash when they can charge you for administration fees when you pay via credit??

[hannibal]

That being said, I think Hannibal nailed the way most of us consumers feel. Fight tooth and nail, because we know what we should be paying, but have to scratch to get down to the amount, only to be told about "documentation fees"(this one gets me goin!) and other extra incurred expenses.


Documentation fees are such a pile of BS!!!! Another scam to get the consumer to shell out more cash!! I've never paid a doc fee, ever on a vehicle. Whenever the subject comes up, I tell them 'Nope, we agreed on a price, nothing about a doc fee. You want the sale or not??'. These days the Auto Trader is the thickness of a bible, lots to choose from out there.

[hannibal]

Dont take it personal every business World Wide works on profit margins.Ask your self do you go to work to lose money or to make money.

I'm in sales as well Gibbies, and I know it all too well about profit margins. But, I also believe in making the customer feel comfortable with their purchase. And if that means shaving off some of that profit margin, so be it. I'll answer to the brass when they give me shit, and I always tell them. 'You want to sell or not??'

[hannibal]

And like Palssonater said, nothing personal.

Wow, I'm a post whore today!

[JB]

Just don't go postal..................."post whore"......lol:cheers: :cheers:

[barkerlakebob]

I like the 13% cash discount........works for me !!

[bigbear]

How ironic that this topic came up. Just last night I was considering going to Winnipeg next weekend and purchasing a scooter for the wife, on my MC or Amex. I believe I will be calling the business I intend to deal with and see what is what, before I drive the 500 miles.
Thanks for the heads up fellas.

[HOUSEHUNTER]

Originally Posted by GIBBIES
And i callBS on selling anything with a 100% margin good for you if you can sell it but the market is far to tight to charge that margin and get away with it. The old rule still holds true cash is KING.If you gots the cash there is no problem if you dont then you have to pay to borrow it or transfer it , it is the cost if you dont have the cash? But those maargins are industrie averages.3-5 % on large purchases,small purchases 25-40% on all others!


wow thats crazy only 3-5% on large items !!! theres 237 auto dealers in the manitoba phone book, most likely at least 45 staff per store thats 10,669 people living off the industry not to meantion the huge overhead these dealers have in there building,land and invertory.......must sell a hell of a lot of cars !!!! wow congrats

[camobomb]

wow thats crazy only 3-5% on large items !!! theres 237 auto dealers in the manitoba phone book, most likely at least 45 staff per store thats 10,669 people living off the industry not to meantion the huge overhead these dealers have in there building,land and invertory.......must sell I hell of a like of cars !!!! wow

Maybe that 3-5% is just with FORD dealerships, they have to get rid of them somehow.........

[The Chef]

The money is made on the service if you ask me. The 3-5% could be for the dealer only. 5% of a $40,000 vehicle is $2000. I've seen some of the houses these poor dealers live in. And the toys they have. TOUGH life. Last I heard the banks and the gas companies are doing RECORD profits each time they report. Go figure

[Maxter]

Sorry boys, but I don't buy into the 3-5% either. It was a cash deal and I couldn't seem to make up my mind on a Toyota Celica or a Mazda MX3. Both of these dealers dropped their prices by $5000 on a $30,000 car. (That's 17% folks).
Profit is not a dirty word, but be honest about it.

Outside of the dealers markup........
When an auto manufacturer offers a cash rebate, all that does is confirm that I am definitely overpaying in the first place.

Have been doing some research on RV's lately and guess what, If you pay any more than 30% below MSRP your over paying. The dealer will still make a reasonable profit, and freight, PDI and everything else still gets covered. If you don't believe me check out what the show special prices are when you go to the next RV show. They are consistently 25% - 30% below MSRP.

[Xxploder400]

Don't forget if you pay cash...they don't have to report the profit as income. Win win for everyone....he get an extra 30% profit. My painter volunteered this a couple wks ago...950+ the man~ 1100 or 850 cash!!!

I like the 13% cash discount........works for me !!

[Palssonater]

Straight from Visa Canada...

From: "Ask Visa Canada" <askvisacanada@visa.com>
Date: 2007/05/04 Fri AM 08:30:28 CDT
To: <
Subject: 18 kg RE: Merchants imposing a maximum transaction amount.

Thank you for your inquiry concerning regulations for Visa card
acceptance. Visa has certain regulations that all merchants which
accept Visa cards must follow. Visa merchants are not permitted to:

* Establish minimum or maximum transaction amounts, even on sale items.

* Submit a Visa sales draft for a dishonored check.

* Pass on the merchant's transaction fee to the cardholder as a Visa
"service charge", "service fee" or "surcharge", even on sale items. A
merchant may offer a discount for cash, however, the cardholder must
be made aware of this prior to entering into the transaction.

* Require a Visa cardholder to sign a sales draft that does not have a
specific amount indicated.

* Merchants may not refuse to honor a Visa card simply because the
cardholder refuses a request for supplementary information/ID.

Please notify the disputes area at the financial institution that
services the card account of any merchant practices that you feel are inappropriate. The card issuing bank has access to the appropriate
Visa rules and regulations as well as to the Notification of Customer
Complaint forms which should be used by your bank to document and file
merchant complaints. It is not necessary for your bank to be the
offending merchant's financial institution in order to file a
complaint for you.

Thank you for writing.
Visa.ca Webmaster:gun_bandana:

[GrizzleyPeg]

Makes me think you'd better establish the price before you tell them how you are paying. Maybe that's no problem. When you see an ad in the trader for a dealor selling a new quad for a certain price, do you expect to be able to haggle the price down?

[HOUSEHUNTER]

thanks, heading to vinnies to buy tracks......and he better take visa !!!
lol,

[vinnie]

thanks, heading to vinnies to buy tracks......and he better take visa !!!
lol,
come on down hh