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  #1  
Old 12-27-2017, 08:55 PM
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Def Fluid

Had a 10 litre jug of def fluid in my truck.
It froze solid and split the jug in this weather.
Why doesnt it split the def tank on trucks ?
What a stupid idea... and i think its 70 % water.
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:51 PM
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Hope it’s stronger plastic in the vehicle then!
Last winter I had a low level warning but even after pouring a warm gallon in it two weeks went by before the tank thawed enough to register that I filled it. My tank has some type of heater but it’s only on while it’s running.
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonym63 View Post
Had a 10 litre jug of def fluid in my truck.
It froze solid and split the jug in this weather.
Why doesnt it split the def tank on trucks ?
What a stupid idea... and i think its 70 % water.

hey Tony... bought myself another backhoe and its the first I have owned that uses DEF. So the dealer asked if I wanted a heater in the DEF tank and for the lines.

So I asked his rec. and he said absolutely I should get it. He said DEF freezes at -12c. No problems he says if the weather is colder than -12c just leave the engine running and all will be fine or store in a heated shop :0 (wtf) ...... if I planned to shut the hoe off when colder than -12 then the heater was a must or it will freeze just like your jug when stored in unheated cab.

So much for using it to clean snow.... will stick with the Kubota for that.
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by boak View Post
hey Tony... bought myself another backhoe and its the first I have owned that uses DEF. So the dealer asked if I wanted a heater in the DEF tank and for the lines.

So I asked his rec. and he said absolutely I should get it. He said DEF freezes at -12c. No problems he says if the weather is colder than -12c just leave the engine running and all will be fine or store in a heated shop :0 (wtf) ...... if I planned to shut the hoe off when colder than -12 then the heater was a must or it will freeze just like your jug when stored in unheated cab.

So much for using it to clean snow.... will stick with the Kubota for that.
The boss bought a brand new excavator when DEF first came out and it was a constant headache with sensor issues, lines freezing and leaking and other electronic bullshit. During the winters usually business is quiet so he'd park it and drain the DEF tank so it wouldn't freeze and crack. But even with that I guess there was still residual DEF in the lines that hadn't been purged and they cracked over the winter. So finally last year we had a bunch of big jobs where we needed that machine and he filled the tank half full in case it cold in the fall and it still had errors codes come up. Finally the idiots at Mazer's took it in again and gave us a loaner that had DPF and worked on it for a month and even had some big wig from Kobelco come to check it out apparently....fast forward to this year we still have work coming in through the winter it appears so after a lot of hunting around we found a guy that sells a module that plugs in to the computer interface in the back of the cab that does something so we don't have to add DEF anymore and so far its done 250-300 hours without any trouble. I might be buying in to the company and I said if we buy another machine with DEF on it I'll get a bypass or 'delete' right away and save us some grief even if its a compromise for the warranty. The tier 4 systems are built for warmer climates like fricken California not for a Hudson's Bay Chinook like Manitoba right now.
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2017, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerlikon80 View Post
The boss bought a brand new excavator when DEF first came out and it was a constant headache with sensor issues, lines freezing and leaking and other electronic bullshit. During the winters usually business is quiet so he'd park it and drain the DEF tank so it wouldn't freeze and crack. But even with that I guess there was still residual DEF in the lines that hadn't been purged and they cracked over the winter. So finally last year we had a bunch of big jobs where we needed that machine and he filled the tank half full in case it cold in the fall and it still had errors codes come up. Finally the idiots at Mazer's took it in again and gave us a loaner that had DPF and worked on it for a month and even had some big wig from Kobelco come to check it out apparently....fast forward to this year we still have work coming in through the winter it appears so after a lot of hunting around we found a guy that sells a module that plugs in to the computer interface in the back of the cab that does something so we don't have to add DEF anymore and so far its done 250-300 hours without any trouble. I might be buying in to the company and I said if we buy another machine with DEF on it I'll get a bypass or 'delete' right away and save us some grief even if its a compromise for the warranty. The tier 4 systems are built for warmer climates like fricken California not for a Hudson's Bay Chinook like Manitoba right now.
yup... 100% agree... sucks for the part timer like me... maybe ok for highway tractors that never shut down but winters I barely put on a couple of dozen hours. Even draining for the winter leaves some in the lines. It worries me for sure.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by boak View Post
yup... 100% agree... sucks for the part timer like me... maybe ok for highway tractors that never shut down but winters I barely put on a couple of dozen hours. Even draining for the winter leaves some in the lines. It worries me for sure.
What kind of machine are you running?
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:09 AM
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What kind of machine are you running?
a 6yo Kubota and the Wolf is the newbie.
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:13 AM
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We have a bunch of dodge ecodiesels at work and dodge told us to only fill tank 1/2 full so the fluid sloshes around, by doing this and with the in tank heater we haven't had any problems. The ford superduty's have a heater as well but we had a couple heater failures and the tank turns to ice blocks!! Regardless it sucks but I think it's only gonna get worse before it gets better with all the emmisions crap
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:02 AM
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I have been reading up on this a bit more. They do have heaters in the tank, but the heaters only work when the trucks aRE RUNNING. Our trucks sit for hours not running, in between runs. They say when u shut off the trucks the system purges the lines of def fluid. The fluid then freezes solid in the tank. When u start the truck, the computer allows 45 minutes without def fluid before it flashes a code. the heaters thaw the frozen fluid and everything shud b good. Crazy that the def fluid freezes every time u shut off the truck and its below -10.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:06 AM
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During the winter we keep our DEF tanks just below half full at max so there is some room for expansion.

other than the factory heaters (which only work while the engine is running) we have no additional heaters and have had no problems. As soon as engine warranty is finished, DEF will be the first thing to go.
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  #11  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:16 AM
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What we do now, is never fill the tanks before u park the trucks. We only get about 2,000 miles to a tank (about 50 litres). I have seen them screw up with 3/4 of a tank tho.
In the cold we do have problems at least once a week with at least 1 of the trucks,
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonym63 View Post
I have been reading up on this a bit more. They do have heaters in the tank, but the heaters only work when the trucks aRE RUNNING. Our trucks sit for hours not running, in between runs. They say when u shut off the trucks the system purges the lines of def fluid. The fluid then freezes solid in the tank. When u start the truck, the computer allows 45 minutes without def fluid before it flashes a code. the heaters thaw the frozen fluid and everything shud b good. Crazy that the def fluid freezes every time u shut off the truck and its below -10.

Yup same with my last two vehicles. Knock on wood havenít had a problem other than it registering the level until the tank thawed out enough to read.
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:41 PM
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a 6yo Kubota and the Wolf is the newbie.
I was on a hydro job earlier this fall and the guy supplying a rubber-tire backhoe loader had just bought a brand new Cat backhoe. And he said he was able to get a tier 3 engine. I've been hearing through the grape vine that some companies like Cat and Deere are able to sell machines with a tire 3 engine because they were clean enough in the first place. I'm not sure what to believe anymore but I'm wondering maybe if its a case of we don't have any actual regulations enforcing the Tier 4 regulations for off-highway equipment here on the Prairie's?
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:47 PM
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Delete that crap.
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