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  #1  
Old 12-25-2017, 07:55 PM
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Floor heat question

Gents,

I built a new 42x40x16í shop and I have an electric in floor heat boiler, but Iím realizing now in the cold that my floor reads 13.5 cel, but the shop air temp is only reaching 8 deg. The heats been running since Oct, and was keeping good, but I did drop it a week ago while we were away in Mexico, but itís had since Tuesday to recover and the floor has obviously gotten to temp, but room is actually colder then I even set it for while we were away.

Any clues what I should be doing? My water temp was a bit low, so I turned it up...only thing I could think of to keep more heat in the floor to heat the room more.
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:25 PM
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Do you have any ceiling fans? With that height that would be a must IMO. Also turning down the heat on radiant heat when you are on vacation is pointless unless you are gone for a month or more. You aren't saving anything.
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:34 PM
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I talked to a few others about ceiling fans, they all said they are a waste of money for the winter, the heat is already starting at the floor, so pushing the air down doesn't prove much. As for leaving for a week..it was 10 days and the point is the boiler isn't running for no real reason for that time, and I had no plans to be in it right away when we got home, so I didn't care if it took a day or two to recover.

I have a mezzanine and it's fairly cold up there, so it's not like the heat is all up top, it just seems like it's not getting the air temp up
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:28 AM
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I’m thinking that in this minus 30 below weather the boiler is having a struggle to keep up to bring in back to the desired temperature. Lowering the temp because you were away for only a week was a bad idea. It takes a long time to heat that thermal mass floor so set your thermostat in the fall and leave it alone until spring. If you are in a hurry, bring in some alternative heat to bring it back up. I have a propane heater you can borrow.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:28 AM
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I just don't get why the floor has been at the proper temp since about last Wednesday but the room won't heat up...but I'm starting to wonder now if I should change the way the thermostat works...when it was set up, it was set with a in floor sensor, so the floor never gets past where it's set..but if I change the stat to room temp, I can get it to run more and get the heat up...I was just concerned how hot that was going to make the floor.

The worst thing I did was heat it up for a party we had..it was way too hot, so I turned it down so that extra heat would also dissipate also. I'll check again today...I turned up the actual water heat yesterday, that should cause the water to release more heat for longer times inbetween the boiler/pump cycling. I'm not rushing out to work on anything anytime soon...too damn cold to leave the house! LoL
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:03 PM
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I Had the same Issue when we first put our floor heat in. In the end the Boiler temp needs to be fine tuned. You have to play with it a bit to work best on the Coldest days and that is it. If you crank up the Boiler temp too much the floor heat will run well past the T-stat. This will create other issues and drive up the operating costs. it sounds like the Boiler Temp is set a little low.
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Old 12-27-2017, 08:18 AM
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My thermostat has a min and max floor temperature along with room temperature. So it will heat the floor until the room temperature is met but will not allow it to get over max floor temp.

Also, what temperature do you have the boiler set to? 120-135 if I remember correctly for floor heat........
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:57 AM
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Well I turned boiler heat up, no change in 24 hours, so I set the thermostat to run for air temp, rather then floor temp. I had my min/max set for the floor, max was 14 and min was like 12 Celsius, and the floor was right on all the time, but it just couldn’t heat the air enough, as even yesterday night it was only 8 in the shop. I set it back to room temp and put it at 12, I’ll check again later today.
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:01 AM
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My slab temperature has fluctuated 8C over the past week and half to keep the ambient temperature constant at 4.5C. The colder it gets the hotter slab needs to be to achieve the same room temp. Seems backwards to me setting a floor temp and expecting consistent air temps as the outdoor temp plays huge factor on heating loads. Sounds to me like you may need to increase the flow rates up on your loops to increase the BTU's being thrown. Even with a supply temp of 160c (extreme for inslab) if my flow rates on the loops are too low (ie .1 gpm) im not heating enough of the water/gylc to supply the proper BTU's to building to satisfy the heating demand.

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Old 12-27-2017, 01:58 PM
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Well I wondered about increasing my floor max temp, but figured that wasn’t going to be much difference from just changing the stat to read air temp, once this extreme cold changes, I’ll try messing with it a bit more, right now I just want to be comfortable and also keep my back room from freezing, which is on a separate loop and a separate flow control
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:20 AM
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It's a controls issue and how it's configured. The equipment will only do what it can do, the slab will only lose it's heat based on insulation rates and the buildings envelope will only do what it can do. Those are fixed, it's how you control the flow and temp that matters.

I had a serious issue when I replaced a 599 mbh boiler in a shop once, I was getting temps at the headers and flow through half the floor... ended up being existing pumps were shot. I'm glad they weren't part of the quote to replace existing and re-pipe as needed. I did have to spend a lot of money on how it was controlled though as it was under my scope of work. VRF pumps... fun stuff!!!

You will need to figure out your sequence of operation to control your boiler and pump. What are your needs? You want air temp, sensible heat, as primary you will have to adjust accordingly. Your slab may get to warm, but ya, limit it on the back end on slab temp.

I had this talk with one of my colleagues today about how worthless set-back temps are on equipment abuse. It's so much easier to maintain and at least a 8% increase in savings based on our calculations to just maintain. Especially hydronic...

Just my two cents....
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:45 AM
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I'll check my flux capacitor and get back too you

Everything is brand spanking new, pump circulates as the boiler demands...but I have heard of other guys running their pumps constantly, rather then just when the boiler cycles...anyone see any benefit to that?


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Originally Posted by Pharic.270 View Post
It's a controls issue and how it's configured. The equipment will only do what it can do, the slab will only lose it's heat based on insulation rates and the buildings envelope will only do what it can do. Those are fixed, it's how you control the flow and temp that matters.

I had a serious issue when I replaced a 599 mbh boiler in a shop once, I was getting temps at the headers and flow through half the floor... ended up being existing pumps were shot. I'm glad they weren't part of the quote to replace existing and re-pipe as needed. I did have to spend a lot of money on how it was controlled though as it was under my scope of work. VRF pumps... fun stuff!!!

You will need to figure out your sequence of operation to control your boiler and pump. What are your needs? You want air temp, sensible heat, as primary you will have to adjust accordingly. Your slab may get to warm, but ya, limit it on the back end on slab temp.

I had this talk with one of my colleagues today about how worthless set-back temps are on equipment abuse. It's so much easier to maintain and at least a 8% increase in savings based on our calculations to just maintain. Especially hydronic...

Just my two cents....
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